On: ClimateConcern@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [CCG] Sources: what are the most unbiased sources for climate info??
Richard Foy had replied to my comment saying:
In my opinion this is the best post I have seen in a long time.
I had written 6/29/2009:
I think asking for facts to answer whether the facts we’re getting are reliable is sort of an unreliable approach. It’s better to ask what can we know for sure when we don’t know much and our facts seem unreliable.
I think what’s going to change the thrust of the science will be realizing we’ve been asking the wrong question all along. There are also a variety of emerging discoveries in the physics and behavior of the climate system, but that’s not the big one. I see extensive misunderstanding of the basic complex system issues.
We represent systems composed of learning parts using controlled operators on controlled variables, for example. Part of what that does is point us to the wrong questions.
The real question is not how we can eliminate the human drivers of climate change as we continue compound economic growth. The real question is what systems will be destabilized to put an end to economic growth. All persistent growth systems come to an end by destabilizing something, ranging from a small cybernetic switch to whole system collapse.
We’re not asking what will do that for the economies yet. At the moment given the strong global consensus to never end growth it seems that catastrophic collapse of the economic system as a whole along with many ecologies is where we’re headed.
We pay so remarkably little attention to the design and development of natural systems we seem to have no clue how to even ask appropriate answerable questions about them.
Phil Henshaw ¸¸¸¸.•´ ¯ `•.¸¸¸